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 Post subject: Turbo'd 1hz still overheating - worthwhile dynotuning?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:30 am 
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Location: Cairns
Australian State: QLD
Cruiser Model: HZJ80 GXL
Transmission: Manual
Year: 96
I've all but given up on my old (500000kms+) turbo'd 1hz not overheating while towing. ie I cannot sit on 100km/hr on flat. And instead must maintain speeds between 90-95, while monitoring engine watchdog and pyro. Climbing hills has become a slow, nerve wracking experience.
In previous posts I've listed all the work done - new radiator, hoses, waterpump, genuine thermostat, genuine viscous fan hub. I've also fitted a pyro post-turbo and an engine watchdog.
Now someone suggested a proper diesel tune/dynotune could help. I'm keen to hear of any experiences you guys might have had doing this?
A bit of history - the injectors were replaced 2 years ago and the injector pump was tuned then by the mechanic (not dyno or anything fancy though)


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 Post subject: Re: Turbo'd 1hz still overheating - worthwhile dynotuning?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:15 pm 
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Location: Sth. West. W.A.
Australian State: WA
Cruiser Model: HZJ80 GXL
Transmission: Manual
Year: 93
Are you running the genuine Koyo, (koyorad) radiator, or something else?
Are you running the fan shroud?
Do you have spotties, or flywire screen or anything else in front of the radiator?
I know it is gen and new, but have you checked to see if the fan clutch is actually locking up properly? Some new ones have been found to be under filled with oil.

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo'd 1hz still overheating - worthwhile dynotuning?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:33 pm 
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Location: NSW Mid North Coast
Australian State: NSW
Cruiser Model: HZJ105 GXL
Transmission: Auto
Year: 98
I watched Turboglide dyno my truck after the turbo and IC install and it really wasn't anything special. Just tweaking fuel to their liking. However, if you have reached the end of your knowledge I would suggest a dyno tune might help for no other reason than to get another set of eyes to have a look. The trick might be finding someone that really understands diesel turbo set ups. Good luck.

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo'd 1hz still overheating - worthwhile dynotuning?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:00 pm 
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Australian State: VIC
Cruiser Model: HDJ80 GXL
Transmission: Manual
Year: 91
Does the exhaust gas temperature go up excessively whilst towing? By excessive, I mean near the 500C mark? If the egt is within reasonable limits, then it would not be a tuning issue with the fuel pump. The main purpose of dyno tuning is to get the fuel supply adjusted to the boost but not overfuelling to the point of raising the combustion temperature to dangerous levels.

If the egts are alright, it would likely be a cooling system issue. Another source of heat is the transmission. So if yours uses an auto gearbox, (sorry i have not read your previous posts) then check gearbox temps too. Like the others said, check for restrictions to the air flow around the radiator and remove anything the blocks the front. Also check the fins on the aircon radiator which sits in front. If these are clogged they just block airflow through the radiator.


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 Post subject: Re: Turbo'd 1hz still overheating - worthwhile dynotuning?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:30 am 
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Location: Cairns
Australian State: QLD
Cruiser Model: HZJ80 GXL
Transmission: Manual
Year: 96
Hi Phill, it's an aftermarket radiator. From a reputable radiator shop though - not an ebay cheapy.
Yes the fan shroud is there. Yes I do have spotties but the mechanic tested air flow through the grill and air con condensor and he thinks it's sufficient.

I'm almost certain the engine is running hotter with the new radiator. And a couple of guys on LCOOL suggested the problem is the aftermarket radiator and genuine is the only way to go.

Peekay - when I'm accelerating between 90 and trying to get to 100km/hour (towing) the egt's will go from the 400's through 500, heading towards 600 which is where i know i have to back off. This is where the temp rises past the 100 degree, sometimes up to 107 degrees (on the engine watchdog). Regularly temp gets up to, or passes 102 where the aircon cuts out too which is obviously bloody annoying (most annoying is whinging kids and missus when this happens).

Temperature does return to normal very quickly though once the fan kicks in and i back off the pedal a bit. But highway driving at between 85-95km/hr depending on grade of road, is no fun with a half dozen cars backed up behind you.


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 Post subject: Re: Turbo'd 1hz still overheating - worthwhile dynotuning?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:41 pm 
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Location: Sth. West. W.A.
Australian State: WA
Cruiser Model: HZJ80 GXL
Transmission: Manual
Year: 93
cambo wrote:
Hi Phill, it's an aftermarket radiator. From a reputable radiator shop though - not an ebay cheapy.
Yes the fan shroud is there. Yes I do have spotties but the mechanic tested air flow through the grill and air con condensor and he thinks it's sufficient.

I'm almost certain the engine is running hotter with the new radiator. And a couple of guys on LCOOL suggested the problem is the aftermarket radiator and genuine is the only way to go.


The LCOOL blokes are right. The genuine radiator has a completely different fin design, which is far more efficient than any other, and is patented by Toyota, and licensed to Koyo for manufacture, so genuine Toyota, or genuine KoyoRad is the only way to get that fin design.

I have been through this exact scenario after blowing the top tank on my genuine radiator, and replacing it with a Repco copper tank unit.
I had the issues you describe, and pretty much the same EGTs as you, and after speaking to my radiator guy, who happens to be a landcruiser guy too, I took it back to Repco for a refund and fitted the Koyorad,...problem solved.

Mine was starting to get warm prior to the rad tank blowing, and that was due to a non genuine viscous fan clutch, and at the time, a genuine unit from Amayama fixed it until the tank blew.

The only drawback with the genuine rads is the bloody plastic tank. I wish there was a way to get a copper tank fitted to a genuine rad, but having said that, the plastic tanks do last for 10 years or more usually.

The viscous fan clutches are "Tuneable", in that you can adjust the temp at which they begin to lock up, and the temp they lock up fully.
If you are even a little bit mechanically able, you will be able to adjust it to come in earlier.

One thing that you mention is very helpful in diagnosing your problem, and that is that the A.C. cuts out.
That can only be caused by the refrigerant overheating (not getting cooled enough by the condenser).
Given that the condenser sits in front of the radiator, therefore not under any influence from the engine coolant temp, (or EGTs etc) suggest very strongly to me that despite what your mechanic says, air flow IS an issue in your case, be it from air flow interference from the spotties, or bent fins or blocked fins or the shroud not sealed around its edges, or the fan clutch not operating soon enough.

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo'd 1hz still overheating - worthwhile dynotuning?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:03 pm 
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Australian State: VIC
Cruiser Model: HDJ80 GXL
Transmission: Manual
Year: 91
Do you have a boost gauge? Is your turbo boosting properly. Sound like a tuning issue when EGT's go very high when going up from 90 to 100kmh. Your initial suggestion about going to a diesel tuner and getting it checked sounds like a good idea.... Hope you sort this out.


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 Post subject: Re: Turbo'd 1hz still overheating - worthwhile dynotuning?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:35 pm 
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Location: Sth. West. W.A.
Australian State: WA
Cruiser Model: HZJ80 GXL
Transmission: Manual
Year: 93
Peekay wrote:
Do you have a boost gauge? Is your turbo boosting properly. Sound like a tuning issue when EGT's go very high when going up from 90 to 100kmh. Your initial suggestion about going to a diesel tuner and getting it checked sounds like a good idea.... Hope you sort this out.


Peekay, how does a tuning issue cause the A.C. to shut down, which as I understand it does when the refrigerant overheats?

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo'd 1hz still overheating - worthwhile dynotuning?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:45 pm 
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Australian State: VIC
Cruiser Model: HDJ80 GXL
Transmission: Manual
Year: 91
Its obvious from cambo's post that the combustion temperatures are going through the roof under normal operation. The egt gauge reading is a direct measure of how much heat is being generated by combustion. The cooling system is designed to take this heat away from the cyclinders and shed it at the radiator. Fuel combustion is the main source of heat in a manual , unlike a auto, where the gearbox will generate heat too.

When excessive heat is being produced by combustion, more that what a 1hz was designed for, a less than efficient cooling system will have issues shedding the the heat. So the first thing is to fix the source of the heat from the combustion and that can only be done by adjusting the air/fuel ratios. Air comes from turbo boost and fuel by fuel pump adjustment - all in the realm of diesel tuning.

The next thing to fix would be the cooling system. When the radiator cant shed the heat fast enough, it transfers the heat to anything connected to it. The AC radiator is mounted on the main radiator and will soak up the heat quickly. This heat-soak makes the refrigerant temp go up and the temperature switch disconnects supply to the AC compressor. Fitting an better radiator will help, fitting an electric fan on the AC radiator is also an option. As cambo mentions, he has replaced all the key components of the cooling system, so I would be less inclined to blame the radiator alone in this case. As the 1 HZ was not originally designed for turbo charging, the cooling system has to be in top condition to handle the extra load. As such, you suggestion to install the best radiator is certainly good advice. But the fact remains that excessive heat is being produced by this engine, and that need to be fixed first.


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 Post subject: Re: Turbo'd 1hz still overheating - worthwhile dynotuning?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:57 am 
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Location: Brisbane
Australian State: QLD
Cruiser Model: HZJ80 GXL
Transmission: Manual
Year: 93
FWIW - my EGTs are around the same as what Cambo has quoted, except that mine are PRE-TURBO. Big difference - about 150 - 200 I'm told, if he is going north of 500 post turbo then that could be heading north of 700 pre-turbo and isn't that piston melting terriroty? I had an overheating issue for a while (it's on this forum) and it turned out to be the radiator but I have also had a tune done for my setup with turbo and Safari IC.

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo'd 1hz still overheating - worthwhile dynotuning?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:22 am 
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Australian State: WA
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Year: I dont have an 80 yet!!
PhillT wrote:
cambo wrote:
One thing that you mention is very helpful in diagnosing your problem, and that is that the A.C. cuts out.
That can only be caused by the refrigerant overheating (not getting cooled enough by the condenser).
Given that the condenser sits in front of the radiator, therefore not under any influence from the engine coolant temp, (or EGTs etc) suggest very strongly to me that despite what your mechanic says, air flow IS an issue in your case, be it from air flow interference from the spotties, or bent fins or blocked fins or the shroud not sealed around its edges, or the fan clutch not operating soon enough.

Not entirely true, there is an A/C cutout in the cooling system which drops the A/C when the coolant temp goes over 102

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo'd 1hz still overheating - worthwhile dynotuning?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:50 am 
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Location: Sth. West. W.A.
Australian State: WA
Cruiser Model: HZJ80 GXL
Transmission: Manual
Year: 93
Peekay wrote:

1. When the radiator cant shed the heat fast enough, it transfers the heat to anything connected to it. The AC radiator is mounted on the main radiator and will soak up the heat quickly.

2. As the 1 HZ was not originally designed for turbo charging, the cooling system has to be in top condition to handle the extra load.


1. Despite the radiator and the condenser being in close proximity, the flow of air from the condenser to the radiator would make heat soak impossible if the fan is working correctly.
The fan moves a massive amount of air when locked up and at the revs it would be doing at 90-100kph, plus the airflow generated at those speeds, it isn't going to happen.

2. As has been mentioned many times before, the HZ was turbocharged by Toyota in the Coaster busses, so not quite an accurate statement. Also, the HDT radiator is to my knowledge the exact same radiator as the HZ, so is quite capable of handling the job.

His EGTs are no higher than mine, which are pre-turbo, not sure from the posts here if his are pre or post turbo though.
Obviously if they are post then he will need to look at the cause, be that AFRs, injector dribble or whatever.
Tuning and injector condition are indeed paramount, however, given the fact that he is using a non genuine radiator, even with perfect tuning he is likely to have issues, just as I and Hauler and many others have found out eventually.

It will be interesting to see if it turns out to be tuning, airflow, the radiator itself, or a combination of one or more of those.

Be sure to post the progress Cambo.

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo'd 1hz still overheating - worthwhile dynotuning?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:38 pm 
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Location: Cairns
Australian State: QLD
Cruiser Model: HZJ80 GXL
Transmission: Manual
Year: 96
Hi Peekay, no boost gauge, so not sure if it's boosting properly.

Hi Phill, yes as per Shane's comment - it's the aircon cutout probe in the coolant pipe. And yes, 102 seems to be the magic number.

The EGT probe is post turbo. So yes, if as per Mike's comments - exhaust temps this high are bloody concerning.

Based on your feedback I'm going to get it into a diesel tuner asap.

Options up here in Nth Qld are limited - but there's a Diesel Service Specialist (no dynotuner though) - these guys specialise in rebuilding and tuning turbos, injector pumps etc.

The other option is a service centre with a dynotuner - from what i can see he tunes a lot of modern diesel 4wds and has a long history as a very good mechanic.

Which of the 2 would you blokes go for?

I'm also going to swap out the aftermarket radiator for a genuine one.


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 Post subject: Re: Turbo'd 1hz still overheating - worthwhile dynotuning?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:20 pm 
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Cruiser Model: HZJ80 GXL
Transmission: Manual
Year: 93
Being good with modern common rail diesels is no recommendation for old school diesels.
It is very hard to find a place that will know how to do it properly,.....forgot to ask, does your pump have a boost compensator on it? If not, there is only one adjustment, and I would strongly suggest you fit one if you can afford it. If it hasn't you can adjust the fuel yourself.

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo'd 1hz still overheating - worthwhile dynotuning?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:20 pm 
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Location: Cairns
Australian State: QLD
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Transmission: Manual
Year: 96
Yes the pump does have a boost compensator Phill


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